[Python-il] Don't copy PyWeb-IL

Arik Baratz list+python at arik.baratz.org
Fri Jan 22 19:59:58 IST 2010

2010/1/22 Amit Aronovitch <aronovitch at gmail.com>

> How one expects things to behave strongly depends on who that "one" is.
> People with different expectations or different knowledge might have hard
> time understanding (not to mention explaining) the other one's POV, so *any*
> implementation could be considered "a bad idea".
> The meaning (purpose) of the two lists can be understood as:
> (1) Python-IL: all things python in Israel, (maybe better named
> python-all-IL), vs PyWeb-IL: web related python stuff in Israel.
> (2) Python-IL: all non-web-related python stuff in Israel (maybe better
> named python-nonweb-IL) vs PyWeb-IL: as before.
Or it can be understood as "Python discussion in Israel" and "Specialized
discussion about python use for the web in Israel".

I know there might be some crossover, but that's what cross-posting is for
(if done in moderation!)

> If you think the lists are described by option (2), no doubt your reasoning
> was right, but note that to think that you must know in advance that
> Pyweb-IL exists, and even then this does not seem to be the most
> straightforward interpretation.
I definitely think an announcement about another list is appropriate.

> If you think option (1) describes things best, then it makes sense that a
> person who subscribes to Python-IL expects to get all python contents,
> including web stuff. He *does not need* to subscribe to Pyweb as well (and
> might not even know it exists). If he does subscribe to both, he might
> expect some duplicate contents. This is the most simple and direct
> expectation based on the interpretation of the group's name. Whether this is
> implemented by forwarding the other list or somehow convincing the denizens
> of Pyweb to cross-post is a matter of implementation.
> Now, experienced net-denizens such as the posters in this thread typically
> know about the dynamics of competing mailing lists, so they settle into a
> practice of searching for all groups containing python and subscribing to
> all in order to avoid missing contents. But in this case (given that they
> also typically know about cross-posting) they should also expect duplicate
> contents.
> And now we come to the question of practicality. So far, my suspicion seems
> correct - NOBODY seems to want to limit themselves to non-web-related python
> stuff (though some wish to reserve the option for that in the future). Some
> other people (I guess) subscribe to all kinds of web-related groups, but
> don't care much about python in general. How do we provide the most
> usefulness to people interpreting the purpose of the groups correctly and
> least damage to those who do not?
> Since it is harder to convince people (some of which might not be aware
> that python-IL exists) to cross-post than do a mass forward, since I
> consider loss of information worse than *expected* and easily removable
> duplication of messages (I am still having a hard time understanding why
> some people subscribed to both groups did not expect to get duplicate
> messages - see above), I thought that the current arrangement is the most
> practical.
> Now, all this is just trying to explain and to understand. I am not trying
> to convince anyone this way or the other (in fact, my personal interest is
> to unsubscribe python-IL from pyweb, so I'll get a little less spam in the
> moderator queue), just trying to clear up misunderstandings.

I've been on-line since 1993. Perhaps due to that I expect mailing lists to
behave in a certain way and expect a certain etiquette regarding exploders
and cross-posting. Yes I could write filters, but it definitely behaves in a
way I personally do not EXPECT a list to behave.

The vote count reflects my position, even if you take the absentees and
enumerate them as 'keep subscribed'.

-- Arik
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